November 2017
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forgiveness


Last week PJ said that when you forgive someone who hasn't repented, you wrong them. If you save someone from the consequences they should get for their actions, you are being an enabler, and doing more harm than good. ((edit: this doesn't mean you can't forgive them for your own sake; just that forgiving them is not something you should do for their sake, 'cause it's unlikely to help them))

I totally agree. And I'm so excited that he's going to go through the personality series more in depth soon.

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Unrelated: I had some yummy purple.

feelings: calm
sounds: computer humming & heater blowing

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Comments
darkpool ══╣╠══
I've heard that before and believe it to a certain extent although it can depend on the situation, that would apply, I believe more to people that you are around frequently.
belenen ══╣garrulous╠══
yes, exactly. I left that out, but he was actually talking about marriage and family/close friend relationships.
valynn ══╣╠══
valynn ══╣╠══
belenen ══╣garrulous╠══
Not offensive at all. I didn't give the whole context of what PJ was talking about anyway (see edited post).
belenen ══╣garrulous╠══
To me this would denote forgiveness wether or not the person who wronged you as repented or not.

Yes, for yourself. But don't do it for them, because it's not really helping them. Or to put it differently, you can forgive the action (because that will help you), but removing the consequences is not helping anyone. Like a parent can forgive their kid for lying but still ground him.
valynn ══╣╠══
belenen ══╣garrulous╠══
I think if you are holding a grudge, you have not forgiven.
anar_anar ══╣╠══
I think it depends on one's definition of forgiveness... some believe that forgiveness is purely for the forgiver, not the forgiven... others believe the opposite.
Personally, I don't believe either, but eh, you probably weren't looking for people to debate what you stated :)
belenen ══╣garrulous╠══
Well, I think it's for both; it will always do the forgiver good, but only do the forgiven good if s/he repents.
thesaj ══╣╠══
Forgiving does not always mean all consequences are forgotten.

If someone keeps borrowing money and not paying you back. You don't keep forgiving them and then letting them borrow another $100. You'd go broke. You forgive them, forget the past loss.

No forgive them (as in you don't destroy your friendship or love for them) but be wise. You realize they have a problem in borrowing money - so you don't "enable" them.

I can forgive my father for having been an alcoholic, that does not mean I am going to buy him a beer. They are two seperate issues that people make the mistake of intertwining. The perpetrators try to say "well if you really forgave me than you'd let me do it again". This is invalid.

An individual may be able to forgive those who abused and/or raped them. But that does NOT mean they're suppose to go ahead and let them abuse them again. God is not cruel and would never ask us to be in such a place.

Forgiveness, means you simply let go of the demand for justice in your heart and soul. And you say, "Lord show mercy and do not damn them for their transgression."
belenen ══╣garrulous╠══
Forgiveness, means you simply let go of the demand for justice in your heart and soul. And you say, "Lord show mercy and do not damn them for their transgression."

Profound words, my friend. So true... and such a bitter pill.
thesaj ══╣╠══
Go find someone who has Babylon 5 on DVD and watch the episode I think called Gethsemane or something to that effect....very profound.
belenen ══╣garrulous╠══
What is Babylon 5? A tv show?
thesaj ══╣╠══
Yup...superb 'science fiction' show....one of the few 'intelligent' shows to grace the television in many years.

Deep plot, rich and realistic characters, endearing and gut-wrenching. (Much better than trek, farscape, or the new battlestar galactica.) Often....unpredicatable...
on communication, social justice, intimacy, consent, friendship & other relationships, spirituality, gender, queerness, & dreams. Expect to find curse words, nudity, (occasionally explicit) talk of sex, and angry ranting, but NEVER slurs or sexually violent language. I use TW when I am aware of the need and on request.
Expect to find curse words, nudity, (occasionally explicit) talk of sex, and angry ranting, but NEVER slurs or sexually violent language. I use TW when I am aware of the need and on request.