November 2017
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convo with my partner about sharing pain and judging / Alias and L Word


My partner and I had an interesting conversation tonight... lately it seems like we clash so much, but it feels productive, like we're getting somewhere. Tonight especially, we had a deep conversation about sharing pain and judging, and it felt so cleansing.

I believe that being open is absolutely essential in any deep relationship, and that means sharing joys and pain, every emotion... and for most people sharing joys is easy enough but sharing pain is hard. My partner's been working toward being more open with me, and before tonight he had never realised that that meant, in large part, sharing pain. That had been especially hard for him because he had believed that stating that someone had hurt him was judging that person. I explained that judging is stamping someone with their actions. It's not judging to say, "so-n-so told me a lie and that hurt me" but it is judging to say, "so-n-so told me a lie, so they're a liar." The first is just stating a fact, the second is judging. But in his family, the response to anyone saying 'this hurt me' was to defend the action of the person who had done the hurtful thing. And yeah, they may have had good motives, but that is IRRELEVANT. If one does something that hurts another, it's WRONG, because it caused pain. And I believe that the best response to someone saying 'this hurt me' is to put yourself in their shoes, imagine how you'd feel, and tell them that you can see why it hurt, because if you had been in their situation you would have felt hurt in this way and that way, and then you say that you are sorry that they had to go through that and you give what comfort and love you can. You don't 'defend' the hurtful actions, because that makes the person in front of you feel that their pain is invalid, or worse, that their pain is entirely their own fault. It doesn't matter why -- that is a question that you ask AFTER the person has at least begun to heal.

This had created distance between my partner and I because he felt that he couldn't share pain with me because I would 'judge' the person by saying that their action was wrong, and I couldn't share my pain with him because he would invalidate it and make me feel like it was my fault. But we've worked through it, and we plan to trust each other with our pain... I already feel safer with him, I feel like we tore down this huge wall between us... I'm excited.

He also said that he's become so much more openminded lately that he'd be willing to let me put eyeliner and shadow on him (only not in public yet). *huge evil grin* I think he was influenced a bit by the other day, when I was watching an episode of Alias and I saw Michael Vartan in dark eye makeup and SHRIEKED at how hot he was. just OMG. and I gotta say, I'm proud of my husband for kicking out some mental-gender stereotypes. My partner is amazing, and he gets more and more amazing all the time.

Oh yeah, over my forced internet hiatus I rented seasons 1-4 of Alias. yeah. 88 episodes, no joke. And I can't wait for November 21st, for season 5! I haven't seen it mind you so don't spoiler it for me, you people who watch TV. I think we're gonna have to buy it, there's no way I could wait for it to go on MVP. I also bought The L Word season 3!!! on wednesday, and I'm trying to take it slow but I only have 4 eps left, WHY are there only 12? And most of it's already spoilered for me but I'm still enjoying it, and I like Helena's character more and more. maybe I'll blather on about that when I finish the season.

and I was very very good and took care of 30+ join requests for curvygirls but I still have another 20 or so to wade through. So much to catch up on!

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Comments
acid_burns ══╣jenny / peacefully falling away╠══
Helena... she has always been my favourite, after Jenny.


belenen ══╣aquarius╠══
I love too many of them to really be able to pick a favorite, but I really love her. I'm so glad she and Alice became friends... I thought it was so sweet how concerned and loving she was with all of Alice's freaking out. But what I love most is how completely she gives her heart. She loves unselfishly, such a beautiful thing.
acid_burns ══╣jenny was a friend of mine╠══
what I love most is how completely she gives her heart

See, this is the thing that most people don't get about her. They just think she's a rich, spoiled brat. It breaks my heart :(
belenen ══╣beautiful╠══
I think too many people tend to see in black and white. Sure, she's had more money than she knows what to do with, and yeah, she can be arrogant, but that doesn't mean she's had a good life. She's suffered and been lonely just like everyone else, and what makes her special is that despite never having found someone to love and accept HER whole-heartedly, she still is willing to take that risk over and over again. She's willing to open her heart and give.
flyingshaman ══╣╠══
It certainly does deepen one's relationship with a significant other when they share pain. Glory, how cleansing and healing that can be!

I have not watched much of the L word. Somehow I never got hooked, though I liked it very much.
belenen ══╣analytical╠══
cleansing, healing... and gut-wrenchingly painful. :-(

I'd offer to have a marathon during your visit but we'd never get through all the episodes!
flyingshaman ══╣╠══
Yes, that does come with sharing pain..

===
*grins*

We can save it for another time then.
_paroxysm_ ══╣╠══
I just have to say...

...ALMOST 1000 MEMBERS! WEEEEEE!
belenen ══╣curvygirl -- me (belly goddess)╠══
*celebratory dance!* ;-D
sidheblessed ══╣╠══
This post inspires me. I think it's wonderful that Ben is opening up to you and being more openminded (boys look so hot in eye makeup). You two are a shining example of what being willing to grow can do for a marriage and relationship.
belenen ══╣amused╠══
I think so too, most of the time ♥ Thanks lovely!
darkpool ══╣╠══
I don't think that an action is wrong just because it causes someone else pain. Refusing to acknowledge their pain iswhat is wrong. Nuetral actions can quite frequently cause pain. The problem lies in if the person says their action wasn't wrong therefore it shouldn't have caused pain, because any action can cause pain. A lot of times talking about the meaning of an action can remove that pain, and the action may or may not have to be modified in the future to avoid causing pain. If it were a wrong action it would have to be stopped altogether.
belenen ══╣passionate╠══
I don't think I was clear in what I meant. If you accidentally trip someone and they fall on their face, you don't say, "it wasn't wrong for me to have my foot there" you just apologize because you caused pain. Any action that causes pain is less than a perfect action, therefore wrong. Intention doesn't matter.

and I disagree that if the action were wrong then it would have to be stopped altogether. We do a million 'wrong' things a day, and if we stopped them all we'd sit still 'til we died.

I think the miscommunication here is that you define wrong in a different way than I do. In my mind, a 'wrong' action is simply an action that falls short of being just the right thing to do. It's just a fact of being an imperfect human. There is no evil in the million accidental wrongs we do a day, there is only evil when we intentionally or knowingly cause harm. I think this is what the Bible means when it says there is sin that leads to death and there is sin that does not lead to death -- in the Bible the word sin simply meant 'missing the mark.' That's how I look at 'wrong' -- it's 'wrong' if it's not perfectly right, but that doesn't mean it's wicked or should be stopped; sometimes it is the best we know how to do.
sabr ══╣RAW : Sexy╠══
I just have to take a moment to squeeze you and love you and tell you that I've missed you so much, and that I'm really really glad to see you back on Livejournal.

Okay, now that Im done with that :) That is so fantastic about you and Ben continuing to grow and learn and communicate. It's just so amazing. Relationships that is. Healthy ones, they just never seem to grow, and give, and amaze.

I have so much I need to tell you. Still working on that post. :D I know you are busy so I will drop you a line when I post it, so that I can be sure that you see it! [love love love]
belenen ══╣amused╠══
awww, you cutie. *hugs you back*

I'm still looking for that post! I've missed so much!
easternsun ══╣╠══
Hello! I was "introduced" to you by aurilion. I live in Kennesaw, and am 25 years old. My spiritual path (which is several different traditions mixed together) is the most important part of my life. And I ALWAYS wear mismatched socks! :-)
Wanna be lj friends?
belenen ══╣amused╠══
sure! what did Lily say about me? ;-)

I'm very intrigued by your spiritual path -- would you tell me a little about it?
easternsun ══╣╠══
Sure! When I was about 17 I became atheist, but that was because of the things I was going through. I had a strong belief in reincarnation, and that's what kept me going and motivated me. I studied Indian philosophy for a couple of years, and then wicca and Paganism for a little bit. Then I was heavily involved in Tibetan Buddhism for 2 years. Now I just pick and choose, I prefer just to have an open mind and read what resonates with me at the time :-)
easternsun ══╣╠══
Oh, and I don't usually mention this (or talk about it in my lj), but since you did in your intro, I also suffered from ED and SI in the past, and slip into it sometimes :-P
belenen ══╣gentle╠══
I need to reword that, I'm afraid, because those aren't things that I myself have suffered from, I was just including them in the ways that people suffer deeply. I was sexually abused as a child, causing deep wounds in me, and I know that others have suffered from EDs or SI that have caused deep wounds too, not the same, but of similar life-impact. We all find different ways to survive.

I'm sorry you've hurt that way and I pray you healing ♥
easternsun ══╣╠══
No worries, I'm not involved in those things much any more :-) Thank you for your kind thoughts.
clown_frog ══╣╠══
I'm happy for you :-)

I tried to have a wee talk with Tim along the lines of sharing pain. Unfortunately Tim has none to share. At times I wish for something approaching a more neurotic boyfriend. It is difficult to be open about emotions and pain and so on when the other person in the relationship really has nothing to say on the matter.

Anyway, think it is wonderful to have deep conversations. If those are the results of clashes then clashes are all fine and good. I am pleased for you about that.

I put eye make-up on Tim once. He couldn't see any difference. I could, I thought he looked "prettier", like I do when I wear it, but he didn't notice a thing. Mind you, I'm pretty subtle.

It would be good for more men to be open to make-up, perhaps. Also be good for more women to be open to no make-up. An article I read in a magazine once was gloating about how more men wax their chests/use hair products/etc, and hahaha now they have to worry about all these things too. Thought it was terrible. They shouldn't gloat about that! They should worry that even more of the human population is getting overly concerned with image!

Kicking out gender stereotypes always a good thing though.

Glad curvygirls is doing so well.
belenen ══╣╠══
I think it's good that you've tried talking with Tim about that. It may be that he's just pushed his pain down deep and isn't ready to face it yet... I'd find it very hard to believe that a person on this earth has managed to escape suffering. But if he's not ready then there's nothing you can do but wait and encourage, 'cause ultimately it's his choice.

hee, I'm not subtle with makeup at all. ;-) I can't wait to try it on Ben.

Thought it was terrible. They shouldn't gloat about that! They should worry that even more of the human population is getting overly concerned with image!

my thoughts exactly!!!! *grrr*
clown_frog ══╣╠══
After almost two years I've finally come to the realization that Tim doesn't have hidden depths. He really really doesn't. He can have philisophical thoughts about things, but he does not have deep pain. It's taken me that long cos I found it hard to believe too! But he does have a lovely family, and a good group of guys that have been with him all through school. Though he didn't much enjoy school itself, it didn't cause him any great pain. He's never been badly hurt in love- all girlfriends before me have been one night stands or just lasted a few weeks.

Its unbelievable, and I actually have to work quite hard to get over resenting it all!

This I think is one of the main differences between us, that sometimes makes the relationship hard, that I have troubles in my mind from school, family, and people, and he does not and so doesn't understand them. And that I sometimes I get very upset about the world, wars and stupidness and sexism, and can't just brush it aside as "nothing I can do about it", which is generally what Tim does.

He takes pride in being shallow and simple, and he is happy in it, I wouldn't want to disturb that even if I could! Though it frustrates me at times.

I only tend to wear make-up when I'm going out somewhere special, so I'm so little practised with it that if I try to do anything non-subtle I feel like I have face-paint on, clown like. Which is a shame because I'd like it to be more arty.

shattered0ne ══╣╠══
Im glad hes finally letting that wall down for you. It takes alot to do that. :)
belenen ══╣artless╠══
it does :-)
on communication, social justice, intimacy, consent, friendship & other relationships, spirituality, gender, queerness, & dreams. Expect to find curse words, nudity, (occasionally explicit) talk of sex, and angry ranting, but NEVER slurs or sexually violent language. I use TW when I am aware of the need and on request.
Expect to find curse words, nudity, (occasionally explicit) talk of sex, and angry ranting, but NEVER slurs or sexually violent language. I use TW when I am aware of the need and on request.