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my beliefs on humansexuality, the purpose of sex, my own sexuality

For the longest time I wasn't sure what I believed about homosexuality, so I just didn't say anything. I refuse to espouse an opinion unless I feel that I can articulate why it is mine. My beliefs on this subject have been years in the making and I now feel secure that they are right for me, they are what I believe at core.

Initial searchings: When I first started trying to decide what I believe, I knew what the church said -- but I also knew that the church often comes up with crap that has nothing to do with God's intent, and the way the church looked at it just didn't seem right to me. And I knew what the secular world said, but I have never been one to simply accept majority opinion as right.

The first thing I did was read the Bible to see if the religionists (note: I didn't say Christians) were right -- that 'homosexuality' was considered wrong. (at that point I believed that the Bible was infallible and complete) I found that the Bible's very vague about lesbianism -- the attitude seems to be 'it wasn't original intent, but whatever' and it does condemn sodomy. It says nothing about oral sex or anything else to do with a same-sex relationship. (((I've read the verses that mention homosexuality uncountable times, so don't bother trying to argue with me about them -- this is how I interpret them))) (((yet another sidenote -- I no longer believe the Bible is infallible. after all, it doesn't say it is, heh. I think that it was all filtered through the people who wrote it down, and then translated over and over, and I think it contains a LOT of truth but you have to dig for it under cultural assumptions sometimes, such as when Paul said women should cover their heads. obviously that's not an eternal truth)))

So I concluded that the 'wrong' act (according to what the Bible says) was sodomy, not same-sex sex. And that makes sense to me. I may offend some by saying this, but I think that sodomy is an unhealthy act, no matter who the parties are. I also think that 'scat play,' 'golden showers,' and any sort of BDSM are unhealthy, whether they're in hetero or homo relationships. I think that they're self-destructive. ((sidenote: I believe they are unhealthy, but that doesn't mean that I think badly of people for doing them. I think that we all have our ways of trying to understand our experiences, our ways of coping or learning to connect, and sometimes an unhealthy act is the only way to get to a healthier way of life. There's plenty in my own life that is unhealthy, I'm sure))
So yes, I think some 'sex acts' are unhealthy, but I don't think it has anything to do with whether your partner is the same or opposite sex.

IMPORTANT: When I first began trying to form my beliefs about sexuality, I was more of a black-and-white, right-and-wrong sort of person, because I had been trained to be from a very young age. The more I grow and learn, the more I realize that, as 1 Corinthians 6:12 says, "'Everything is permissible for me' —but not everything is beneficial." The laws of the old testament weren't designed for creating a sense of morality -- they were intended to create good health. Eating pork is bad for your body, so is anal sex, simple as that. And back in THOSE days, when there were no condoms or lube? The idea is frightening.

I believe that sex is a physical expression of emotional and spiritual intimacy; I don't think the primary purpose is for procreation or physical enjoyment. (I think when God/dess said 'go and be fruitful' s/he didn't mean, 'go have a million babies' s/he meant grow, develop, bear spiritual fruit.) I believe that we can have emotional & spiritual intimacy with any human being, regardless of genitalia, and that that can fulfill us without sex, or we can choose to expand that intimacy into sexual intimacy as well. I don't think there are inborn penchants for sex; I think that we are limited only by what our experiences have taught us to desire.

I also don't believe in mental gender. I'll probably go deeper into that in another post, but for now I'll just say that I don't believe that there are qualities that are inherently 'feminine' or 'masculine' -- they're all HUMAN qualities. If they seem to divide according to physical sex, that is only because of societal conditioning.

So I believe healthy sex is a human-to-human expression of emotional and spiritual intimacy, and physical gender is unimportant. I believe there is no such thing as 'heterosexual' or 'homosexual' or 'bisexual' or any of the rest -- we're all just human.

As for myself, I'm attracted to everyone -- "I like everything. Boyish girls, girlish boys, the heavy and the skinny. Which is a problem when I'm walking down the street." There are characteristics that catch my eye more than others, but for me sexual attraction could only develop from an emotionally and spiritally intimate relationship. Sometimes a person's persona can make my heart skip, but it's really not predictable by outward appearance; I think that what steals my breath is their spirits shining through. Women catch my attention more, but I think that is because as a group we suffer more and therefore have more opportunity to grow, and I'm attracted to people who have a passion for growth. And I think it's also because I'm married to Nimajneb, and I don't think I've ever met a man who matches his passion for growth -- and I tend to subconsciously compare men to him.

If I must pick a category, I call myself bisexual. To myself, I'm labelfree. I've wanted to express the fact that I am attracted to both sexes for a long time, but I didn't want to do it until I knew how I felt about all sexuality, and felt confident enough to speak it to anyone. I expect that some friends will no longer be interested in me, and that's fine; I understand that my views conflict with many beliefs that have been reinforced for years, and if our relationship isn't stronger than those beliefs, that's okay. If you disagree with me, please do it from the perspective that this is my opinion and it differs from yours: not 'you're wrong, I'm right.' Like I said, these beliefs have been long in development and they are very strong. I'm open to new ideas but none of the old ones are going to change my mind.

comments screened but will be unscreened unless you ask for them to stay screened -- or if I think they're too inflammatory. don't want any comment wars. ;-)

IMPORTANT NOTE: these beliefs have changed upon new realizations which I need to post about! suffice to say that I believe God has no problem with homosexuality itself and never did. (added nov 9, 2007 -- new post to come on the subject soon, hopefully)

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in_withbothfeet ══╣╠══
Thank you for this.

I am not Christian, however, I am quite spiritual and I am also interested in Christianity. And I have read those verses often, as well, for various reasons. I wanted a better understanding on the background behind the claims against homosexuality, from a "religious" point of view... I also wanted to put any pieces together that were missing (I believe that the way our government now handles this politically has nothing to truly do with religion but many greater and deeper issues... but that it is a pretense, but maybe not on purpose, but that's another story. And I jsut updated about it and am sure I'm going to be defriended over my last few posts as well, but I needed to say it).

As well, I have always believed in spiritual sex and even when I declared myself Athiest at 14 (I am not any longer!), after considering myself Christian, I wanted to figure out as many interpretations on homosexuality as possible. What I found myself thinking is similar to what you express, I believe, if I have read you correctly. I think the original "intent" was one way, but... it was vague in that the reasons behind condemning certain acts were more to do with implications of relation to other morals, not implications of morals relative exclusively to homosexuality... well, moving on.

I studied sexuality in other religions and faiths as well and homosexuality is rather Ancient. And there is no religion that does not believe sex is spiritual in some way and that it brings people closer to one another by brinigng them closer to some sort of enlightenment in a shared experience... so, anyway.

I suppose I'm having to come to terms with being "bisexual" as far as a label would go, as well. It's not been easy for me. Not for religious reasons but for ...I don't know, confusion, shame, long story. Anyhow, I believe there are some unhealthy acts of sex as well, which are those that do not bring people towards that higher enlightenment but rather keep someone stagnant, or regressive...

I was just thinking about this today! Because I got hit on by my neighbor and I asked him to stop and he said "It's a good thing!" (he had called me 'fine')... I froze but I'll retort later to him. Anyway, I was thinking about it... what I could say to him, how to explain why this was offensive. I came up with something like, I do not want to be approached for my physical appearance, and maybe being BEAUTIFUL is a good thing but that doesn't mean being the same as sexual, as if that's all beautiful is. And that there are plenty of other ways to get to know a person. And I don't mind being appreciated for someone being sexually attracted to me IF I CHOOSE TO SHARE IT WITH A LOVING PARTNER. Not by random people. Who don't see beyond that point, whereas when it is loving and spiritual sexual attraction, there are plenty of ways to grow from it and be beyond it and always learn more.

curvygirl -- art (Zorn fireglow)
belenen ══╣curvygirl -- art (Zorn fireglow)╠══
it's odd, I've never felt any sort of shame or 'badness' about my attraction to women, despite the fact that the family culture I lived in would have considered it just about the worst 'sin' possible. I really don't know why. I have felt shame, but that was about sex, and didn't change whether regarding men or women. That was my first clue that God didn't have a problem with it -- I was VERY religious when I was young. (at age 11 I swore off lying, and literally stopped from that point. A promise to God was a very serious thing to me, I'd rather have died than broken it.) I knew that if it was wrong, God would have let me know in one way or another, and I prayed and asked him many times. Usually if I prayed and asked about something, my feelings about that would change to tell me whether to continue or stop -- for example, if I prayed and asked if I should sign up for the talent show, I would either start feeling more confident or more uneasy, and that would be my answer. Sometimes he used signs instead, but usually it was a change within. When I asked about women my feelings didn't change at all -- I think because I was too caught up in shame at sex in general. Later, after I healed from a lot of my sexual wounds and became more comfortable with sex in general, my feelings for women increased pretty dramatically, and I kept asking and kept searching for the answer. In quite a few ways he told me that it was fine. As I was writing this I just sensed Hir say that the only reason he prefers male/female couples is because there is more clashing and therefore more growth. Pretty awesome!

That's actually the first time I've sensed Hir talk to me in a long time, very exciting! I need to go back to church -- worship helps me to connect to Hir in a way nothing else can. so thanks for this comment that prompted it!

I think I might turn this comment into a post soon. ;-) You have such a way of getting my creative/pensive juices flowing! ♥
in_withbothfeet ══╣╠══
Then I remembered a conversation with a male friend who told me! UGH! that women get too offended about those remarks that are supposed to be meant as compliments and I'm like UGH. I'll just make a post about it some time but basically he tried to argue that "When you see someone what you notice first is their looks, not their IQ" and I said YES, that's why you get to know someone first. Sexual orientation and identification etc are VERY PERSONAL things that require permission and trust mutually before it is really explored further and, you don't give random people your permission to that just because you have it. As if walking down the street makes it okay for people to hit on me because I'm putting myself out there.

He said, "personalities are individual and personal too" and I said, yes, but that's why you approach such things with respect so that the person opens up to you by choice. With appearance, you can't "Choose" to open up to someone, you're just THERE. AND, at that, sexuality is something that can be valued as intimacy and between specific people, not a part shared with everyone, whereas a personality trait is a part of who you are with everyone. So it's YEAH IT IS JUST DIFFERENT and why the HELL am I even on this topic?

I think physical attraction and sexual attraction are different, for me anyhow. I can't deny that I am physically attracted to people sometimes but... it's not like... sexual. It makes sense in my head :\ and the thing is...

People will argue for sex as being animalistic and blabalablabalabla and the thing is!!!!! Yeah, we have drives like animals because we ARE ANIMALS and we can fulfill procreation as well BUT! Because we have more than other animals, such as, rationality and human emotion and the ability to develop, progress in ways animals can't... build upon things rather than just strive to keep things steady (like in the animal world. They evolve but nature does that and the traits change with nature. With humans, our traits can change things and our abilities, and nature changes in part with that)... humans strive to keep discovering. In a way. And I think that the beauty of our drives is that they, well, they're necessary TO be in relation to objective beauty. We have sexual drives and organs in a sense so that we can keep reproducing but that doesn't mean that is all there is to it! We have them so that we can also be driven to go beyond just those drives. Like you know? I hope I make sense...

And another one of my friends was like. "But not all sex harms everyone if it is safe even if not intimate" and I don't believe in that however the point I chose to argue was t hat. Fine, even if that were true, the argument doesn't make sense to me because we ARE capable of spiritual sex and growth and love from it. There is nothing else that is in nature that "might as well" regress as if it doesn't cause impact. Or, like, if you're living somewhere that provides and enables everything that is necessary to learn and find happiness, blablabla, and that is POSSIBLE... then going to a town where, well, atleast nothing bad can happen, but doesn't enable the full potential of happiness, then WHO on earth would say "well, I might as well live in the other town, then!" No! Even if it doesn't cause any extra "Detriment" (which, I think it does because being blocked from higher aspiration is damaging) it doesn't mean that aspiring for something that is better is... worthless? I don't know.

Long rant.

belenen ══╣passionate╠══
the thing with people 'hitting on' people, in my mind, is the attitude in which it is done. I think it is definitely possible to be attracted to a person physically and express that while remaining completely respectful -- however, 99.9% of guys are trained to believe that they own women, that women are just there for the taking, like plucking fruit off a tree. Most of the time, when offering so-called 'compliments' what they are doing is marking their territory. They might as well just drop trousers and pee on you. The 'compliment' is not AT ALL about expressing admiration -- it's paying you off with nice words to that they can strip you to nothing but an object in their minds.

See, I don't think of humans as like animals AT ALL. We are as like to animals as animals are to plants. Animals aren't fancy plants -- they are an entirely different organism. Animals do not have the power to choose (or extremely limited power) -- they are ruled by instinct. Sex is not a human instinct -- to say that it is is to say there is no such thing as rape. Sex is a human DESIRE, not a need, not an instinct.
in_withbothfeet ══╣╠══
I can't figure out whether I'm "physically" attracted more to males or females but, I mean... that's because I don't understand what that means. I'm drawn to people for reasons that have nothing to do with the outside. If I notice someone's exterior then like. Ok? But I'm not going to approach someone because of it or something... so as far as the insides of someone goes, I am attracted to and desire and admire and appreciate ...both... sometimes in different ways, somehow, but not really because they're different humanity-wise. But like you said, women and men do go through different experiences or experience things in different ways and I suppose the way that shapes development might shape someone of a certain gender somewhat more akin to others of that physical gender than to those of others but that's not due to lack of capability or to superiority or inferiority? Yeah.

Oh, and about the "some sexual acts are unhealthy" thing. I think for me , the way I try to determine that is whether or not the act brings someone closer to another person. BSDM etc is more of... feeding or talking to a specific part of a person that applies only to... that person... and often stemming from traits that can inhibit growth of that individual.

okay but also!

About how you say that you interpret the bible as God saying. "Don't go have a zillion babies" but do it for other reasons, I was thinking something about that, too. About how people argue that humans are only here for sex and procreation like all other animals so it is natural and okay to have sex casually...

But. I was thinking about it. Animals, do not overpopulate themselves. Well, sometimes they do. But then they have cycles where every few years they even out, same cycle every time. It's meant to be that way. It's natural for THEM. But for us, since we throw things off kilter when we overpopulate, that says to me that we have the ability to go too far, which also means we have the ability to go beyond but it doesn't have to be in a bad way. OR IT could be in a bad way. But animals do NOT go too far. That means... they... stop there? Yeah. Really stopping now :)

belenen ══╣iconoclast╠══
I think that a person's exterior is an expression of their interior, not in a way that you can catalogue or define... obviously they express themselves through how they dress, how they carry themselves, the expression on their face, but also I think that God/dess made our bodies to match our spirits. So I do think that you can look at a person and be instantly attracted, not because of any sexual urge but because something about the way they look tells you something about their spirit that you really like. There have been some girls who literally make my heart beat faster, and when I met them and got to know them a little, they DID fit well with me in some ways. (guys too, but that doesn't happen often) I think attraction to a gender is entirely cultural -- I think we're all bisexual at core (but don't tell anyone I said that because it's apparently a VERY offensive idea!).
in_withbothfeet ══╣swing╠══
Oh, wait, in response to what I just said.

I think what I meant to say was that animals can't go overboard without it evening out again... or being for a reason. but humans CAN. Animals by nature instinctivey do not which means they don't have a choice and don't act on it. Humans, have the choice. We can take it beyond the biological sex drives and let it open us up to something more. And with every choice for goodness, there are responsibilities that can backfire when taken advantage of. hence negative outcomes. okay. something like that was in my head, anyway. Interesting you bring this up but wait. This stopped being about homosexuality. But I think it is relevant BEECAAAUSE I am talking about how some acts of sex can be unhealthy, but for everyone. And it doesn't exclude anyone. And I don't think it excludes anyone from the healthy ways, either. OK! Byee!
genesiskenshin ══╣╠══
Very insightful.
belenen ══╣connate╠══
thank you ♥
armandii ══╣╠══
I can only give you my personal view, I would not presume to know what it best for anyone else. For me I only want sexual intimacy when I have emotional intimacy and trust in a person. I have, in the past, had sex with men I did not have that trust with and it left me feeling hollow and abused (both by them and by myself for putting my body through it). However, I do not judge people for enjoying the physical side of sex without the need for emotional intimacy. They are not me and will have different needs. As for sodomy and scat play it has no appeal for me whatsoever. I can also see that it could be 'unhealthy' due to the bugs that live in the anus. As you say, people do unhealthy things. Smoking is unhealthy and still people do it. Also, polyamory has not appeal for me, though I respect it as a choice that is right for some.
belenen ══╣veneration╠══
I can only give you my personal view, I would not presume to know what it best for anyone else.

very wise. All we can ever know is what is true for ourselves.
esotsm ][ clementine ][ lookingup
delicatexflower ══╣esotsm ][ clementine ][ lookingup╠══

ah, i know what you mean...

i understande everything you said...

at least you are being *true* to yourself now.

that's what's the most important!
belenen ══╣exuviate╠══
thank you! it feels gooooo-oood!
folkchick3 ══╣╠══
First, let me praise your honesty and openness, and above all your bravery in writing these things and sharing them with people who matter to you. I have/am not/have never been bi or gay, but many of my friends (and one beloved family member) are, and I have seen the pain and struggle they have gone through, first to figure out who they are, then to bravely express that true self, and then to weather the fallout. Also, I want to say good for you, for and thinking deeply, and studying and working through what you thought (and not speaking until you had done so.) There is a shortage of that on this planet. I was moved by what you said about sex as an act of intimacy stemming from an emotional relationship. I always saw it that way also. In terms of "right and wrong" (if such labels can be said to apply) I am far more disturbed by the idea of heterosexual people having indiscriminate and promiscous sex with no love, no relationship and no caring, than (for example) two homosexual people in a committed relationship expressing their love through physical means. The second is (while not for me) closer to my definition of intimacy than the first, which I think cheapens and objectifies what sex was meant to be. I have never had recreational sex... not because I am "better" than anyone else or anything like that but because I held to the belief that there was more than just the physical aspect of intimacy, and I was holding out for the whole thing....all of it. The love, the expression, the caring... Not just the act. I applaud the fact that you consider yourself label free, and that you have searched your thoughts, beliefs and self to discover what you feel is right for you. My thoughts on homosexuality are that in a nutshhell... I know what I feel is right and wrong... for ME. I will not be asked to account for another persons decisions at any final judgement or reckoning, only my own decisions. It is not for me to decide if my friend or neighbor is making the right or wrong choice, it is for them to decide. I believe it is God's job to judge (or not judge)them and their actions. It is my job (according to the Bible) to love them. Those are just my thoughts....
belenen ══╣exuviate╠══
Exactly. We can only know what is true for one person -- ourselves.
sabr ══╣╠══
I think this is beautifully written, and very thought out and well put. I agree with you on many points, and even the points that I don't go "YES YES!" I do not disagree with, because my own opinion is vastly underdeveloped. It takes a great amount of courage for you to put this out there, though, and I am proud and glad for you. [hugs]
belenen ══╣oneness╠══
thank you so much lovey! ♥ ♥ ♥ *hugs back*
katielilie ══╣╠══
Good points all.

The Bible was written by men. Men whom many believe were divinely inspired, not divine themselves. Much of the laws in the Bible were written as religious law for health and sanitary purposes, because the people during that time did not understand the importance of sanitation. Therefore the religious leaders of the day told them that certain things were "unclean" in order to keep them alive, in order for their race to endure.

For example the Bible refers to a woman being unclean during menstruation. The people during that time did not know how to handle and properly dispose of bodily fluids the way we do now, also to them blood equaled life, it was more than a symbol, therefore a menstruating woman literally had life flowing from her, you can see how that would freak them out a bit.

As for homosexuality, I agree with you on most points. I do not believe that love can be a sin, I don't really think any feeling can be a sin for that matter (although it may be important to bear in mind that I no longer claim to be Christian), It's with the expression of those feelings that we sometimes cross that line. I don't know if sodomy is a sin, or if it's another example of one of those unhealthy acts that they made into law. Thankfully, I don't have to decide. I do not envy the plight of the homosexual.

I felt the same way about BDSM that you do, until I learned a little more about it. It really has little to do with sex, it's more a head game. Like any "alternative lifestyle" if you will, it can definately be played out to unhealthy extremes. Contrary to what many believe, one does not have to have prior experience with abuse to be "into" that scene. I've never been abused, and I admit that it intrigues me (although I do NOT mess around w/ human waste). I have more thoughts on this, but in the interest of not writing a novel in your comments, I'll pass for now.

I respect your beliefs and your ability to put them out there. That is an admirable trait indeed.
belenen ══╣iconoclast╠══
For example the Bible refers to a woman being unclean during menstruation.

about that -- during the week of menstruation, the 'unclean' belief resulted in a woman getting to rest while the men did all the cooking and taking care of the kids! and brought them food! and since the women synced up, they got to have girl time. I tell you what, if I got to do that once a month with my girls I would not care if I had to work my ass off the whole rest of the month!

I don't really believe in a black and white concept of 'sin' (yet another post I need to make!), so I don't believe sodomy is a 'sin' though I do think it's an unhealthy choice. like cigarettes.

about BDSM, I agree that it's more about head games than sex, but I consider those head games to be unhealthy... and horrifyingly wrong when it comes to enslaving another human being. I don't care if they want it, a person's free will should NEVER be tampered with -- which may seem a contradiction, but I don't care. To me, that is a line that should never be crossed, and when it includes sex it's even worse, I think. I could go more in depth but I think I'll stop here. ;-)
katielilie ══╣╠══
belenen ══╣╠══
woah_the_kettle ══╣╠══
belenen ══╣╠══
kmiotutsie ══╣╠══
*giggles!* yay!! you sound like me! i have an archived blog on myspace that's a lot more succinct, but says pretty much the same thing-- actually, i was just bitching about labels. i fall for the people i FALL for. sometimes they're dudes, more often they're chicks-- but you know wher i stand on all this, so... *smooches!!*
belenen ══╣iconoclast╠══
*kisses back!* you ROCK you know that? I love you and your attitudes. ;-)
kmiotutsie ══╣╠══
trenchmeister ══╣╠══
I almost left this alone....
I have to ask. How is Ben taking this? Does this mean that you are now in an open relationship or are you just encouraged to share your sexual feelings about others? Or then again am I way off in left field?
semi aitiaidi colour roc
belenen ══╣semi aitiaidi colour roc╠══
Re: I almost left this alone....
I'm committed to Ben for life and I believe casual sex is VERY unhealthy, so the only way I would ever be with a woman is if Ben and I both fell in love with her and made life commitments to her. So no, not an open relationship, though somewhere down the road there is a chance we'd become a triad with another woman, if we met a woman who fit (which isn't something I have high hopes on, but I don't think it's impossible).

He's totally comfortable with it, and has no problems with me being attracted to women because he knows I'd never act on it unless he was a willing part of it. We joke about it. ;-)
sidheblessed ══╣╠══
First of all, thank you for posthing this. When we post our beliefs about something so personal, there's always the risk of offending. So thanks for being brave.

Anyway, I must say I agree with a lot of what you say here. I really agree that BDSM is unhealthy - violence has no place in the bedrom, ever. I aso agree that golden shwoers are unhealthy and I think very disrespcful and demeaning and I'm just not down with sodomy. Have no interest in it. Like you though, I'm not going to look down my nose at anyone for what they do in bed. Sex is private and so are persoanl issues and if the only way someone can get off is through BDSM, then I will let them be.

I think that sex should be an expression of intimacy and trust between two people who love each other and a way to connect more deeply. I doubt strongly I could sleep with anyone I didn't love and have that intimate bond with.

As for my sexuality, I tend to say I'm people centred but I guess that amkes me bisexual, sinc i like both guys and girls! ;) I really just fall in love with peope not body parts.

Again thanks for posting, this was really interesting!
belenen ══╣iconoclast╠══
violence has no place in the bedroom, ever
*passionately agrees!*

yes exactly, people centered!

and you're welcome, thanks for the great comment. ;-)
clown_frog ══╣flower╠══
I really just came on here to let you know I'm ok and thank you for your message. Drained my credit so couldn't reply. Just haven't had the chance to come online much, thats how it is when at home!

I'll probably reply properly to this post, and others, sometime when I'm back in my flat (going back tomorrow). Similar to what you write I've always felt attracted to people, rather than a particular sex. It doesn't bother me, so I don't analyse or think about it. The paragraph beginning "As for myself...", that sounds almost exactly like me. I also don't like the label bisexual, mainly because it sounds like "attracted to men, and attracted to women", whereas I feel more like "attracted to people". Not all people, obviously, but you know what I mean. And partly my dislike for labels in general.

As you know, I don't believe in God, so that reason for considering sodomy unhealthy does not apply. The reason the bible does not mention lesbianism is probably partly because of its general consideration of males over females- what they do is more important, good or bad, and possibly because lesbianism is less common than homosexuality (at least, it is these days, though that depends how much faith you put in statistics), and possibly for the same reason it wasn't made illegal- they just didn't believe in it. Was either some queen was completely astounded when it was suggested to her that women might be attracted to women, she didn't believe it. Anyway, I'm sidetracked.

How do you mean these acts are unhealthy? Physically or emotionally? Physically sodomy can give you haemorroids and too much over long time weakens sphincter control, but I don't think that could be enough to call it wrong. Why do you think it is unhealthy? Especially sodomy I don't understand thinking it unhealthy. I know you put wrong in inverted commas, but unhealthy is still a judgement I feel disconcerted by.

I would like you to explain more about why and how you think some acts are unhealthy. I think a relationship can be bad for you, but I'm not sure about specific acts. Not sure about some of them. Sodomy I don't think is unhealthy, except in a physical way, possibly, but that no more than many other things.

There, I've said more than I was going to, and I really have to go now. Look forward to being better in touch when I'm back in the flat :) I need the time and mind to reply to comments and to comment on more... don't know the word... kind of mean personal but this is pesonal. Life relevant, perhaps, rather than issue kind of posts. Friend comments rather than thinking comments. I look forward to being in a space where I can do that, and I'm sorry for my absense for the past week or so, and just now. :-)
belenen ══╣analytical╠══
the Bible does mention lesbianism, but in a sort of off-hand way (one verse mentioning it as opposed to maybe five that mention sodomy).

as for sodomy, I believe it is unhealthy because of the physical health risks (which include anal cancer and greatly increased risk of STDs in addition to what you mentioned) and because I believe it's degrading. I think that sex is sacred, and I think having sex involving an orifice that is meant to push out waste is degrading to both people involved, but especially the recipient. I feel that it's no different from 'scat play' or 'golden showers,' because it involves a waste-holding-and-moving orifice. And any act that degrades a person seems unhealthy to me. I am not arrogant enough to declare that it IS unhealthy, only that that is what I think, and I could of course be wrong.
kevloid2007 ══╣╠══
first of all, congrats on doing this. it shows guts. it really didn't surprise me though - I always thought you liked women that way. I'm just saying. :-)

second, labelling sodomy as wrong is wrong. sure it isn't everyone's cup of tea, but about half of the group you just acknowleged yourself a part of do it. what's WRONG is combing through the bible looking for loopholes to do what you want and still 'technically' follow the book - I consider that the worst kind of dishonesty. I just had to get that off my chest. please don't be mad.
belenen ══╣passionate╠══
I didn't label it as 'wrong' -- I said that that was how I interpreted what the bible said. I do think it is unhealthy, because sticking something IN a hole that was designed to push waste out seems unhealthy to me. And it's known to cause serious health problems, and it seems incredibly degrading to me. It might not seem that way to others, and that is fine, whatever! I could be wrong of course but that is how it seems to me. There are plenty of things I do that seem unhealthy to others and I don't care. I'm the only one who knows how it affects me.

I don't give a shit about 'technically' following the book. If I did, there is a hell of a lot I'd do differently, such as not cut my hair, wear a head covering, not eat pork, etc. etc. etc. I certainly don't need any 'loopholes' to justify what I do. The only rules I live by are "love God/dess, love self, love others." The reason I don't lie is because I don't like the effects it has on my life, not because it is a 'rule' that I think I must follow or be damned. When I was reading those verses, I was not looking for a way out, I was looking for the real meaning, because I wanted to know what GOD, not the men who wrote the bible, thought of it. And yeah, I find it offensive that you would suggest that I was doing such a thing because that would be dishonest.

feel free to reply, though you'll have to do it in a separate thread -- I'm just freezing it to prevent a response from someone else.
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on communication, social justice, intimacy, consent, friendship & other relationships, spirituality, gender, queerness, & dreams. Expect to find curse words, nudity, (occasionally explicit) talk of sex, and angry ranting, but NEVER slurs or sexually violent language. I use TW when I am aware of the need and on request.
Expect to find curse words, nudity, (occasionally explicit) talk of sex, and angry ranting, but NEVER slurs or sexually violent language. I use TW when I am aware of the need and on request.