mini-rant on 'curse words'

In reading my journal, you might have noticed that I use the word "fuck" and some other 'objectionable' words. Here's my feelings on 'curse words':

There are two kinds; type 1 consists of words that are considered 'vulgar' by society, and type 2 consists of descriptive insults.

Type 1 I have no objection to. To me, saying "shit!" when you stub your toe has no negative effect whatsoever. Likewise, the gerund "fucking" has come to mean "extremely" or "the epitome of" – a satisfying version of "very." Why satisfying? because it is a harsh, extreme sound, fitting its meaning. Also included in this category are words/phrases like: "fuck" "crap," "damn," "ass," and "pissed off." (as long as they aren't used against people, like "fuck you" or "you're an ass")

Type 2 consists of words that define a person as an action -- [TW: all kinds of slurs]"cock-sucker" "liar" "mother-fucker" or a body part -- "cunt" "dick" "ass." (I don't find those words offensive when used to mean actual body parts, but I don't think it is okay to call a person by them and thus reduce them to a body part) Also included in this category are words like "slut," "bastard," "nigger," "spic," "whore," "fag," "[that's] gay" "retarded," "bitch," "asshole," and "idiot." These words are dehumanizing. Any one using the word 'slut' is stating that some women are nothing but 'dick receptacles' -- supporting the idea that some women deserve to be raped. Any one calling someone a 'bastard' is not only missing the target and insulting his mother, but is also stating that people born out of wedlock are worthless. Any one calling something/one 'gay' as an insult is stating that queer people are worthless. Using ethnic slurs like 'nigger,' 'spic,' 'mick,' etc. is obviously denigrating an entire race – saying that their race or country of origin makes them less of a human than yourself. All humans have equal value and any opposing idea is disgusting.

Also, I understand that 'bitch' is often used to mean 'strong, opinionated woman' – what the fuck? "I'm going to call myself less-than-human to express my strength." ??? You can't take an insult upon yourself and change the meaning to a positive one. Call yourself an Amazon, or compare yourself to a woman like Hatshepsut – don't try to 'reclaim' a word that never had a positive meaning. ((I understand exceptions for those who have strong dog totems and literally mean 'female dog' when they call themselves 'bitch'))

Not to say that I am perfect! I break my own moral code sometimes, especially if someone harms one of my friends. Most of those words I have trained myself out of but I allow myself to dehumanize people by calling them 'assholes' sometimes. I hope to eventually quit that.

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wicked_abandon ══╣╠══
In the same vein, some women -do- deserve certain words. Not objecting your viewpoints at all, but you missed a HUGE variety of women in your ideas against vulgar language. Hookers. Porn stars.Premarital "Samplers." None of these people are supported, protected, or judged kindly by god, and deserve certain words.
"Slut" does not mean "Deserves to be raped." It means "I have no respect for myself and I will get naked for anything that wants me." "Bitch" has now warped to mean a woman who disgusts other people with her hard headedness and her immediately negative reaction to other people. A woman who thinks that only she is right and who forces her opinions on others. Gay can mean a homosexual man, and I don't think that's a bad thing, especially when men come out and say "Mom, dad, I'm gay, and I'm in love with a man/woman." They have accepted it, therefore, there shouldn't be a problem with it.
I hope this didn't come off as a rant, it was just an afterthought.
belenen ══╣passionate╠══
Very few women "choose" to be in the sex industry because it appeals to them. If you do the research, an overwhelming percentage of them were so abused that they were robbed of their self worth, and believed what those around them told them through word and actions -- that they were 'sluts' and 'whores' and good for nothing but sex. Most -- 70% to 100% -- of the women were abused as children. I'm not saying that their choice was right -- but when you are taught to believe that you are nothing but a rag for men to jerk off in, you don't see any other possibility or hope for your life. Think. If everyone around you is telling you that you are naturally a teacher, are you going to become something else? not likely! You come to believe that your worth lies in teaching!

As far as the 'gay' thing, I'm referring to when people use it as an insult, such as when they don't like a situation and say "that's gay."

God is loving, patient, and kind. He doesn't throw away people because of that they've done. If that were true, I'd have been thrown away as a liar, thief, and manipulator when I was eleven!

Most of all, God hates the sin because of the damage it does to the person living in it. He NEVER EVER EVER says, "You're a whore, because you have sex with men for money. You deserve what people say about you." He DOES say, "You are my wonderful, worthy child, and I want you to stop hurting yourself and me with your behavior. I want you to turn to me for help."
wicked_abandon ══╣╠══
There's a huge difference between New Testament and old, though. One of them shows a god who is vindictive and occasionally cruel, which is the one I was raised on. Not only that, but I believe precious few of those stories. I know that sounds bad, and it's a terrible first impression to make, but I cannot and will not respect pornographers or hookers, never. Never ever. And my opinion of them is solid. That being said, I also don't believe in God. I don't believe in anything. I've never had the time or the interest, despite the fact that many of my "friends" have tried to shove it down my throat. I was just trying to relate to you on the right level.
anar_anar ══╣╠══
I cannot and will not respect pornographers or hookers, never.

This statement bothered me a bit. It's fine if you choose not to do these things yourself, and personally, I don't like either industry as I feel both degrade women and really mess up the feminist movement... BUT... I will respect anyone and everyone, because I think all human beings deserve that much. I just think it's a really harsh statement to say I won't respect ANY of the NO MATTER WHAT, simply because of the industry they work in, when sometimes, it's not what they chose to do.
Oh, and the only exception to my rule of all getting respect is rapists, because they are not human beings.
belenen ══╣intense╠══
Yeah... I believe that all humans deserve respect, but I also have a hard time seeing rapists as human. An act like rape seems to step over a human boundary into demon territory.

That said, I do try to believe that they are human and deserve respect. And at the same time, I wonder if it's true. I'm still waiting on an answer to that question.
anar_anar ══╣╠══
I've got your answer: no.

Trust me. They are not human beings.
0vary ══╣╠══
the very bad part of it

is they are.
wicked_abandon ══╣╠══
How can any woman demand respect when she furthers the idea that women are nothing but a piece of ass? Pornography and prostitution are not some big-penis run conspiracy gainst feminists. These are not woman who have been tied down and FORCED to have sex with strangers for the cameras, oohing and aahing all the time. They didn't get real jobs, they did this. Feminists tend to look at the world through very bizarre rose colored glasses. They think that men should be respected when they're good and penalized when they're bad, and women should be respected always. You show me a woman who has earned herself a spot in society, who has worked all her life for the right reasons, who has helped her friends or her kids or her elders, and you'll be showing me a woman I respect. Show me a woman who smiles all pretty while sucking on some other big chested hussy because McDonald's didn't work out, and you'll be showing me a woman who has stepped outside respect's boundaries, at least for me. I'm not asking you to share my beliefs, I'm not asking you to change your own, I'm simply saying in pretty understandable terms that people are individuals and should be judged as individuals.
anar_anar ══╣╠══
I would give you my response, but frankly, you have a very... well, there is no other way of putting this really, just a wrong view of what feminism is... perhaps if you were to figure out what feminism really stands for first, well, then I wouldn't have a problem responding to you. Right now though, the whole basis, or what I see as the basis, of your argument, is pretty flawed.
wicked_abandon ══╣╠══
Okay, well, what I said was that "Women wants to penalize the opposite gender when theyre bad and reward when they're good, but reward themselves always." If you're not willing to respond to that but you think it's flawed, that shows that it seems true, at least in some vein.
wicked_abandon ══╣╠══
Feminists* Rather.
anar_anar ══╣╠══
"Feminists tend to look at the world through very bizarre rose colored glasses. They think that men should be respected when they're good and penalized when they're bad, and women should be respected always."

That is what you said, I've copied and pasted it here and done nothing else but add quotes. See, the problem is, you said "they" in your second sentence and your antecedent is "feminists"... as you gave no other noun for "they" to refer back to. So yeah, your definition of feminism is very wrong, but sadly it is what is commonly thought of feminism. I suppose I couldn't really blame you for that, but now that I've let you know, well, you should want to figure out what it really means.
I'm not trying to be an ass, it's just that in the past, if someone holds an incorrect definition of anything and that word is used in our conversations, well, it's just really hard for me to keep talking, as we are going to misunderstand each other no matter what.
belenen ══╣passionate╠══
These are not woman who have been tied down and FORCED to have sex with strangers for the cameras, oohing and aahing all the time.

Visit this link -- this is only one of many, many stories like this. If you do the research, a great majority of these women were forced into it.
belenen ══╣strong╠══
Oh. I misinterpreted what you were saying -- I wouldn't have responded the same way if I had known that you didn't share my faith. I do my best to share my beliefs only when asked or with another Christian.
I hope I didn't come across as trying to make you share my beliefs, or as attacking you for your beliefs. Everyone has a right to their own. Thanks for explaining yours.
wicked_abandon ══╣╠══
Oh, not at all! This wasn't an angry or awkward exchange. I just wanted to share my opinion on words that I use very frequently and in earnest, and don't feel guilty for.
belenen ══╣garrulous╠══
good. ;-)
wicked_abandon ══╣╠══
And, wow. This has been quite the roller coaster ride so far. The high and low is this: I know exactly what feminism stands for. I also know that it gets taken too far, and occasionally allows CERTAIN women to force a double standard even while they say double standards aren't fair. Proof is shown in the fact that another -woman- doesn't agree, and two people tell her she is wrong. (Not you, Bele, you made very certain not to do that.) Either way, I don't come here so I can dread angry responses from feminists pretty much suggesting that my personal opinion is somehow flawed (Because THAT goes against their way as well, doesn't it?) This wasn't even ABOUT feminism or pornography at first. I gave like five examples up there in my first post, I also responded to the idea that God does not punish for sins, I never said rapists deserve jack, or anything about rapists so it's all just a "Pick what you can argue and argue it" rather than looking at my real points. As a side note, I've known women in the industry to LOVE what they do. Hell, some years back there was an artical on Ron Jeremy's girls, him or one of the other major contributors, in which they spat at the idea that they're there because they can't do something else. So, you have your information and I have mine, FAR from every porn star is there because they have to be. For the sake of peace I'd like to close this topic saying nothing was learned or changed on either side. Anybody who wants their shot at the last word or whatever is free to respond, but I'm done, cause this won't get any of us anywhere.
nikare ══╣╠══
*Maniacal Laughter*
*Calms down*
Please do not take offense or think that I am laughing AT the conversation. I'm simply amused with yet another example of my theory of "Semantic Conversation Progression".

This originally started about curse words. Now it's about Feminism.
belenen ══╣curious╠══
my post, or all the comments?
nikare ══╣╠══
All the comments together. The focus shifted quite swiftly.

Semantic Conversation Progression.
belenen ══╣teasing╠══
I was all set to get offended until I remembered the comment chain. ;-)
rouge_dawn ══╣╠══
That is an interesting point of view.

wicked_abandon ══╣╠══
What the Crap?
Wow. I just searched for my livejournal username on Google and found this. I sincerely cannot remember having written even half of what came from me, and frankly I'm embarrassed about it.
Having grown up a drastic amount since we last spoke, I just wanted to apologize. I was having personal issues with self-esteem as a result of the porn industry at the time of this argument, and was a very angry, childish, insecure woman. I'd also convinced myself that feminism, rather than rude radicals -calling- themselves feminists, was some sort of attack upon me as a housewife. I'm proud to call myself a feminist today (though I'm still a hypocrite who can't help the occasional 'bitch' or 'slut' when another woman is intentionally attacking/disrespecting me. It's an old throwback I can't seem to correct.)

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. Sorry, and I've grown up. Take care!
belenen ══╣inspired╠══
Re: What the Crap?
wow, that's really awesome ;-) thanks for sharing your journey!
quirky - 30 rock - angry badger face
moonvoice ══╣quirky - 30 rock - angry badger face╠══
Wow, you wrote this five years ago! (I was looking on your profile page).

I agree with you on your relationship to using swear words in the 'type 1' sense, and I'm training myself out of 'type 2' sense, which was something I was kind of exposed to as a kid and teenager and not something I want to carry with me as an association.

I don't like to call myself a 'bitch' to indicate strength, and to me it's only ever been an insult, with the exception of users like lupagreenwolf who has a specific affiliation with wolves. If someone called me a 'bitch' to indicate strength, I'd probably ask them to use a different word. :/
Expect to find curse words, nudity, (occasionally explicit) talk of sex, and angry ranting, but NEVER slurs or sexually violent language. I use TW when I am aware of the need and on request.
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Expect to find curse words, nudity, (occasionally explicit) talk of sex, and angry ranting, but NEVER slurs or sexually violent language. I use TW when I am aware of the need and on request.