May 2019
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31

Unethical behavior: loopholes out of agreements, poking people's sore spots

icon: "sceptical (my face, one eyebrow lowered and the other raised, one side of my mouth pulled back in a disbelieving look)"

Being around my biofamily made me realize all these things that used to be normal for me that I now consider super shitty behavior. Using loopholes to escape things you agreed to do: this is treating someone as your enemy. If you know what the point of their request was and you are deliberately looking for a way to avoid that, you shouldn't have agreed to do it in the first place. The ethical thing to do would be to go to them and say, "I know I agreed to do this but I'm not comfortable with it, let's renegotiate." You should be able to trust that if someone ends up breaking an agreement, it wasn't due to lack of effort to honor the spirit of the agreement or renegotiate to one they could honor. You should not have to think of all the ways people could say yes and then blame their not-doing-it on your phrasing in order to lock people into an agreement they can't wiggle out of. They shouldn't agree to things if they are willing to try to wiggle out of those agreements.

I hadn't realized that it was M who was responsible for inversely-teaching me to not poke people in their sore spots or say things just to irritate. That is disrespectful. If you know something causes someone upset, be sensitive if you HAVE to discuss it and if you don't have to discuss it, just don't do it. Deliberately causing distress for one's own amusement is not making a joke, it is being unkind and disrespectful. Also, I realized how effective my method of stopping that behavior is: describing it and explaining how it is unethical. If you protest with distress, that gives them the 'fun' they were looking for. M's 'jokes' may be technically harmless (implying to P that they resemble someone P thinks is unattractive/unpleasant) but the effect is where you know the ethics of a thing.

(meta-note: I haven't had time to do more than write lately but I promise I'm not ignoring anyone, I just want to keep momentum with writing. I will respond to posts and comments when I next have time)

back to top

esotsm: clem - open your eyes
delicatexflower ══╣esotsm: clem - open your eyes╠══

at least you can say out of a painful situation with M, you can say you are more understanding and compassionate for it. that is a beautiful thing. most people become exactly like the way they were treated growing up (others choose the other way as well) but it was your choice and thank you for choosing to be better then that <3
belenen ══╣veneration╠══
thank you, lovely <3
mac_arthur_park ══╣╠══
I really needed to read this today. Thank you.
belenen ══╣gentle╠══
you're most welcome <3
antuvschle ══╣╠══
"Using loopholes to escape things you agreed to do: this is treating someone as your enemy."

This. So much.

I've been having massive arguments with hubby about his breaking the agreements that he makes with me. I have trouble articulating why I'm so angry. Last night I used the analogy that: if two countries are at war, and they negotiate a peace agreement, and one breaks it, then you're not "ok I messed up this one thing why are you upset?" you're back at war is where you are.

He tries to make it about the current event in isolation, to make my reaction sound unreasonable. But it was reasonable at the time of negotiation for reasons (ahh ethics) he agreed with! And he didn't renegotiate, he just reneged.

but of course the only reason you needed a detailed agreement in the first place is that you don't trust each other. the reason for the negotiated agreement was to right a wrong. that wrong is no longer righted if the agreement is broken by party who committed the original wrong. (usually by the time you need a peace treaty both sides have wrongs to right but this one was pretty one-sided.)

I ask him to look at his behaviors as either building trust or breaking it down. I think it's a useful litmus test in a troubled relationship. Enemy or not, breaking agreements does not build trust.
belenen ══╣artless╠══
yes, exactly. I hope that your spouse will look at this behavior carefully and decide to build trust instead.
lilywolfsolomon ══╣╠══
My biofamily taught me so much about all this in the same way, and then in my first relationship, I pretty much played out all the patterns that I'd somehow ingrained and... I got to see that, wow, they really did not work. I mean, not if I wanted *that* kind of love. At this point I can't quite wrap my mind around why people do such things at all. I get that it's learned behaviour but... what really mattered hit me so quickly and I could no longer settle for anything less than realness (I feel like in my case such behaviours were actually a refusal to be real, a backwards way of not admitting vulnerability). And when I'm real, I know that we are always either watering the seeds of relationship or not, in every moment, and I chose to never consciously neglect those seeds. And yet... for so so so many people this is still okay behaviour and just how we learned to do things... I get that but I can no longer even begin to understand it. Knowing I have been unkind to another in this way, even as a tease, just hurts my heart in a way I can't describe.

Thank you, I so appreciate your maturity in these ways. Maturity is not a word I use often or even like very much in the way it's often used, it seems to me, to mean pretty much the opposite of queer. But I suppose as a garden metaphor it works just fine. You know how to nurture gardens, you know how to bring fruits to maturity so you are a mature caretaker.
plant magic
belenen ══╣plant magic╠══
aww, thanks. I hope I can be a better gardener in all ways, every day, than I was the day before.
on communication, social justice, intimacy, consent, friendship & other relationships, spirituality, gender, queerness, & dreams. Expect to find curse words, nudity, (occasionally explicit) talk of sex, and angry ranting, but NEVER slurs or sexually violent language. I use TW when I am aware of the need and on request.
Expect to find curse words, nudity, (occasionally explicit) talk of sex, and angry ranting, but NEVER slurs or sexually violent language. I use TW when I am aware of the need and on request.